Thinking Out Loud
We host a gathering of people at our house on Friday nights. It is, at this stage anyway, nearly the entire church that is being planted down here. It has raised a lot of questions for me. Questions about church, what it is - what it isn't - why we do it - when does it happen? Do we need 3 people to have church, or 6? Do we need to take an offering? Should there be a worship leader? I'm pretty sure I don't want a "house church." I am also not interested in building an organization that everyone is supposed to come to in order to live out their corporate faith. I'm pretty tough to please...
If you look at the Gospels and even the letters directly written to churches (or groups of churches) all of this stuff is up for grabs. Paul doesn't feel the need to mandate that kind of stuff. I talked last night about Jesus initiating times of intimacy with us. In Mark 6 Jesus is less concerned about all the activity and business than he is actually spending some time alone with his followers. There is nothing that generates more "activity" for the Christian than church. I am asking myself what I really want out of church. I love getting together with the folks from this Friday night gathering, but in this hypothetical world in which I'm dwelling, what would I do differently?
In my mind, everyone that comes over on Fridays could be leading their own group somewhere. And in the ideal group, they would be in the minority of Christians in their new group. I would like to invest myself in these leaders, helping them see the potential for connecting with people all around them and equipping them to get into "their world."
For my own group, I would like to start connecting with the families from Ben's and Luke's schools. I'm not sure how that would look yet, but I'm imagining social "mixers" and school events just to build some relationships. Not phoney ones, where I pretend to be their friend so I can "spring Jesus on 'em" at a moment of weakness. I mean really getting to know people and listening everyday - every moment - for the Holy Spirit to hear which people are ones he has positioned
Just thinking out loud.
Scott Bane
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I feel like you've read my mind with your thinking out loud! I've recently thought about the exact same things with a whole new perspective- maybe a bit clearer now. Before, we felt that it was 'frowned upon' to socialize with people that weren't from our church, but now I feel like the Lord has Himself handcrafted a new group of mom friends for me to be a witness to just by being their friend and showing the example of who we are, and I didn't even see it coming. And it just feels right and appropriate and on the right path, if that makes sense. I think what you've been written here just hits the nail right on the head. I am excited to see what happens next...
Steph
This is the way my family lives: Live your life in front of them. We have kept friends and have continued to make new ones, not so many from church, but from kids schools, baseball, football, work and so many other places and this is something that we have and continue to receive scrutiny on. I am very thankful to read what you are thinking. I do believe it is the direction for someone like myself, not a traditional church. I have been able to show "Jesus" to our friends and in return I have learned so much from people who don't attend a church. I must say when you step out of the box of "Church Idea" you need to protect yourself and not get caught up in their ideas of what church should be: Follow Him and be protected!!
I've been thinking along these lines as well. As Steph said, it seems within the 'church world' it's frowned upon when you socialize too much with people from other churches. For me, when I do, it brings freedom and a sense of unity. We are the body of Christ...we need each other. What I need church to be for me is a group of people (not a place or time) with whom I can truly fellowship (you taught me the truth on that one) and be transparent with. From that I can grow, learn, and be encouraged to go out there and do what God wants me to do. I feel like I had that when we met in class, and in your parents home. Now, I have neither. I guess I've come to the place where I know this is not a perfect world, and the people running the church (as we know it) are not perfect. That may be the truth, but I don't want to get to the place where I give up on the church.
I belong to a group called Celebrate Recovery which is composed of anyone with any type of addiction or co-dependency like me. It is opened to all.Some are Christians,not all,but all are lost in their addictions. I too was once in the pit with my husband, but here in this group, I can share how Christ lifted us out and the power of prayer. I have never seen or particpated in more reverent worship, more heartfelt prayers, seen more compassionate hearts, made better friends, or have seen the Holy Spirit work so earnestly. Amazing grace!!
I have always felt (mostly secretly) that the church demanded too much in the way of activity from the family. I have felt pressured to attend everything and be involved in A LOT of things. I have actually felt guilty for staying home with a sick child before! How sick is that! I just think that if we are too busy doing "church" all the time, there is no time to actually live it out with your family. I would even go so far as to say that the immediate family suffers from over-involvement in church. It becomes a ritual, motivated by lots of stuff it shouldn't be (like living up to other people's standards).
Amen Tricia ! Leadership has spent too much time builing up and edifying a BUILDING rather than the folks inside of it. "Church" doesn't (or isn't supposed to anyways) revolve around a BUILDING, it is supposed to revolve around the PEOPLE inside it. When the church stops empowering the people and building them up and edifying them, they stop coming. If the Church is doing things right, they are working for the people, it's not the people working for them.
When the 5 fold ministry does their job (as it says in Eph 4:11,12) and builds up the people in the church to go into the world and be ambassadors, they are successful. Empower the people in their gifts, build them up, and they will DESIRE to give back to others. You won't even have to ask them, they'll ask what they can do to help. That's the way it should be. I've been is services where the leadership would say "you need to be here everytime the door is open". That's really a tongue in cheek saying," otherwise you're not a strong Christian". I'm just glad to see people waking up to that nonsense and refusing to be bullied by it !!!!
Dan.
Priorities!! Remember the order
I'm thrilled to see the conversation here and I'm sorry to have been out of it for so long... I want to mention something, even though I'm probably too late to get anyone to notice it.
The common thread in each comment is a bit of "If my pastor did this..." or "if my church were doing this..." THEN I could be doing more etc. We don't want to fall into that ditch either. As Individual believers we are still responsible to do all the things we expect out of the corporate "church." We are all without excuse. So the church does not do an effective job of evangelism, but what about you and what about me? What are we doing? So the church is more interested in its own preservation and its own agenda, but what about the individual believer? Where is his / her focus? I don't imagine any of us standing in front of Jesus and saying, "Well no, I didn't actually serve the poor or visit the imprisoned or clothe the naked or heal the sick... But you have to understand, I went to a very inward, selfish church." We have to learn (I say we, because I mean me as much as I mean anyone else) to unravel our spiritual existence and disentangle it from the work or mission of our local church. Should US churches be better than they are? Yes! But they do not stop any of us from following Jesus in the way we expect "them" to.
So, you'll never comment again now, will you :-)
I will. As soon as I'm done with this comment, I am going to start the ball rolling on something the Lord told me I could do that was outward focused. It has nothing to do with my church (and I don't want it to), but I do need a contact to make it happen. I've just put off getting in touch with her, because of..."insert any number of lame excuses here." Pastor Scott, thanks for reminding me that the church is not running my life. Sometimes I just let myself get so tangled up in the red tape, I let it keep me from being any good to anybody. So, here goes!
Okay, I'm commenting...again! I know you're back from Disney. Your wife tells all on her blog, you know. Just so you know, I check every day for something new here. No pressure or anything.
Hah! The joke's on you... I didn't get to go to Disney. I was working in Kansas City while Sheryl and the boys were cutting a swath through Central Florida.
Seriously though, I do apologize for the long delay. I have a lot on my mind - I just haven't gotten any of it out yet. Thanks for checking!!